Interview with Photographer Maria Krugovaya and Artist Pavel Dyagilev

We would love to introduce to you to Maria and Pavel, who will be talking to us today about their incredible collaborative project ‘NOrmativity’; opening up about their experiences as an LGBTQIA+ photographer in Russia. Original Magazine: We love your ‘NOrmativity’ project, could you tell us about your journey in creating this body of work and how your collaboration with Pavel Dyagilev came to life? Maria Krugovaya: “First of all it was Pavel’s idea. He wrote to me and asked if I would take pictures of him naked in the sheer dress. I don’t shoot men much but I knew that usually the theme of ‘men in dress’ is revealed through the old-fashioned view on the «male photoshoot» just adding the dress. I wanted to show a more feminine and gentle point of view on men in general and men in dresses. I intentionally used the same lighting, angles, mood and post production as I use in my photoshoots with women. So I wanted to avoid the effect of ‘wow, this is a man in a dress’ and dig deeper. I think Pavel can explain this better as it is his concept and idea”. Pavel: “I was going through a rather rough process of self-awareness during the pandemic. All I wanted was to get rid of all the things that pressed me. As a gay man born and raised in a small Russian town in Siberia I always was under pressure of heteronormativity, toxic masculinity and so on. I mean I always had to look like, behave, talk and think like ‘a real man’. But something inside me always knew that this was not ok. So, many years later the inner conflict between who I am and who I always pretend to be came to a peak. And the image of me naked in the sheer dress came to mind. I wrote to Maria and asked if she could make my idea real and she said yes. So while shooting I felt free. Free of everything! Of all the do’s and don’t’s. Free of time and space. I just was myself naked and vulnerable yet powerful and defended by the dress. That is why after I got the result of our work I decided to show it to the world and share my story”. Maria: “I just wanted to add. I believe that there is no sweeter and more truthful thing than a person that comes to me on the very peak of his self-expression, experiencing something extra important. I felt a great honour that Pavel trusted his vulnerable and personal idea to me. And I could relate to this idea so the collaboration was as natural as breathing. Also, it is rather hard to answer this question because the whole process from discussion to the last shoot was like a flow”. O.M: In your interview with Pavel back in 2019, you touch upon Instagram blocking imagery on artist profiles. Instagram censoring/blocking images is frustrating for many however, Instagram in now in the processes of changing their policy on nudity; do you think this will allow more creative freedom and expression online, especially within the LGBTQIA+ and BAME communities? M.K: The censorship affects any creator in the way of thinking about posting his/her work online as well as while making the content. I mean when I personally go to post this or that picture I always think whether it will be blocked or not. But in the long term perspective I think about it even while shooting. So, it becomes a background idea of the process. I think about the composition, lighting, pose, as well as whether it is going online or not. The thing is that Instagram toughens their policy on nudity and sexuality (that is what we’ve heard here in Russia), so I do not think that censorship allows more creative freedom and expression online in Instagram especially. However, there are many other resources for artists who work with nudity, porn and other censored content. Maybe these platforms will rise up besides Instagram. But still I do not think that censorship helps with promoting any kind of artistry. As for the LGBTQIA+ and BAME community, nudity as a part of body positivity is a part of expression of their artistry. Censorship affects them as well. However, discriminated groups always been banned from an open space so to say and always found new ways of expression and speaking out loud. Maybe it will be a bit easier for them to find more ways of bypassing the censorship or restrictions. O.M: As an LGBT photographer, have you faced any challenges within the creative industry? How have you overcome these challenges, and have they shaped you as an artist? M.K: As a photographer I always worked with private clients. And that is why I never faced the discrimination in artistic sphere. But there was one story. Back in 2008 I worked full-time in a photo studio in a mall. When they got to know that I am a lesbian they forbid me to work with girls under age 21. So, when parents brought their children for a photoshoot (not nude) the administrators of the studio warned them that I was lesbian. I needed to hold the door open while shooting. Many people denied to get pictures from me. In my future work I began to keep distance with my models as I thought that it was wrong to be close to a woman. My friend who is a photographer told me that it was very noticeable on my pictures, so very gently I began to get closer with the models on the shoots and it worked. Now the only boarders that I respect are the personal boarders. And in my artistry it is very important to show the hidden parts of a person through the lenses of my camera. I need to be as close with my model as she or he allows me to. O.M: Who inspires your artistry? What themes and motifs influence your work and thought process? M.K: It may sound a bit cliché but a lot of my inspiration comes from life. I guess that there are two ways of inspiration. The first one is an experience that you get throughout your life, the second one is the ways of artistic expression that other artists used. So, for example, you can see in a movie someone spits in other’s mouth, it excites you and you decide to use this motif in your future shooting. Then you are to choose the way you can show it. You can refer to any artist you like or any picture you saw online for example. And when the motif and artistic media connects the satisfaction comes as a result of this inspirational work. O.M: We have seen that you are sometimes in front of the lens yourself, has this always been a part of your artistry? As a photographer, does this shape the way you are in front of the lens? M.K: Modelling in front of other photographers’ cameras was not always a part of my photography intentions. I started to get in front of the lens when I decided to improve my own work and the connection with the model and the photographer. Because most of my models are amateur or not models at all. I wanted to know what they come through on the photoshoots and I wanted to understand what they feel in front of the lens. I wanted to comfort them with the right words and intentions. As many photographers, I also thought that it is rather easy to just to stand in front of the camera. But I was so wrong. It is hard as hell. And it really helped me in my work even more than any workshops with famous photographers. So I strongly recommend young photographers to take part in photoshoots as models. Particularly naked as it is even harder. As a photographer sometimes it disturbs me to be a model because I think of the wrong lighting or angle that doesn’t compliment me and so on. Of course it sounds kinda crappy because you should trust your photographer. He/she has different point of view on you, than you have on yourself. The only thing for a photoshoot to be successful, is for me as a model to relax and trust. O.M: And finally, where do you see yourself in three years’ time? What are your future goals and aspirations? M.K: Frankly speaking everything is complicated. Living in Russia and making plans are absolutely polar things. So for now I live and work in a flow trying to speak up abroad. As in Russia it is kind of dangerous and not widely acceptable. But nevertheless I want personal exhibitions abroad in international galleries. And as for the dreams… I want my art, the themes and motifs I uncover and develop to be accepted here in Russia. To feel free to create and express myself and help my models to express themselves, their pains and problems.